Curse

Timeless Logic · Oct 21, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

I'm at the point in my GW PvP career where the Ranger is the only class I love to play. On the flip side, I dislike running cookie-cutter and gimmick builds. My mind doesn't operate in a manner suited for deconstructing and constructing builds, but I'm very solid in terms of tactics, direction and quickly adjusting to dynamic situations.

I'm in need of inspiration. Anyone have a potential new direction for the Ranger in GvG? You don't necessarily need to spell out a build, as I'm more interested in developing my own character based on a list of unconventional concepts.

Timeless

Bankai · Oct 21, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Trapper.

It's all I can think of that's not condition spreading or other cookie-cutter.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 21, 2006, 10:44 PM // 22:44

there's only 1 gimmicky ranger build out there, and it sucks (touch ranger). And cookie cutter builds are "cookie cutters" because they're effective. So, just learn to get really, really good at all ranger builds. Melandru's, trappers, crip shot, and spirit spam are probably about all you'll see in gvg, because they are good.

Oct 21, 2006, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Rangerspiker is not gimmicky?

-Loki- · Oct 22, 2006, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Ranger spike is less gimmicky than a toucher.

Xasew · Oct 22, 2006, 01:40 AM // 01:40

RSpike is gimmicky only if it's a team build. And even then, it's just another spike, not even a very effective one in the current metagame.

Oct 22, 2006, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Less gimicky but still a gimmick you mean? An dI believe DeeR and a few others did just fine Rspiking in ladder(and why would someone run an rspiker alone outside of some other "gimmicky" spike build). THey just did even better with obsid spike. Sorry this was a digression on my part. Back to the original thread.

Thympers were pretty gimicky too...

Patrograd · Oct 22, 2006, 11:25 AM // 11:25

This is an odd thread imo

Rangers can do pretty much whatever you want them to do

Damage? No problem, hell you can even spike
Degen? You got it
Disruption? here you go
Ground control? It shall be done
Movement? Done
All on the same bar? Job done

What do you want to do with your ranger that isnt covered? The only class that comes close to this kind of utility is mesmer

Timeless Logic · Oct 22, 2006, 02:38 PM // 14:38

@Patrograd: I'm well aware of the Ranger's versatility. You misinterpreted my question. I was asking how best to utilize it. I've played a Ranger since the first WPE of Prophecies. I recognize that there are many facets to the class, but I'm more interested in combining them to make a new jewel of a build.

@all: Thanks for the input. I currently run a Cripshot Ranger most of the time. I guess the motivation for this thread stemmed in part from Nightfall, but if Rangers won't be seriously affected, I'll continue to play as I have been. If you've ever felt the urge to develop something completely new because you're frustrated with the current stagnance of build creation, you know how I feel.

Patrograd · Oct 22, 2006, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timeless Logic

@Patrograd: I'm well aware of the Ranger's versatility. You misinterpreted my question. I was asking how best to utilize it. I've played a Ranger since the first WPE of Prophecies. I recognize that there are many facets to the class, but I'm more interested in combining them to make a new jewel of a build.

.

Well, I think it is important to understand that the 8 skills on a ranger's bar in GvG represent 1/8th of a team build.

The kind of ranger you build for GvG is therefore entirely 100% dependent on what those other 56 skills are that your team is bringing and what they need you to do to fit with the team's goals.

Unless you are playing GvG on your own of course.......

Timeless Logic · Oct 22, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Understood. I should have mentioned that I'm running a balanced pressure with a bit of condition spread. Anyhoo, I've found a couple new builds. Thanks all for the input.

Eroth · Oct 23, 2006, 10:42 AM // 10:42

theres is one possibility no ones said. Mix a prof to your ranger. Instead of A bow ranger become a Dagger-wielding/semi-trapper. People come along that stuff all the time. Don't limit yourself to the bow.

Patrograd · Oct 23, 2006, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eroth

Instead of A bow ranger become a Dagger-wielding/semi-trapper. .

I'm not sure that this is a sensible idea for any reasonable level of GvG tbh

ZenRgy · Oct 23, 2006, 11:41 AM // 11:41

Chances are you'll be asked to bring toxicity, oh joy!

PaulOtt · Oct 23, 2006, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timeless Logic

I'm at the point in my GW PvP career where the Ranger is the only class I love to play. On the flip side, I dislike running cookie-cutter and gimmick builds. My mind doesn't operate in a manner suited for deconstructing and constructing builds, but I'm very solid in terms of tactics, direction and quickly adjusting to dynamic situations.

I'm in need of inspiration. Anyone have a potential new direction for the Ranger in GvG? You don't necessarily need to spell out a build, as I'm more interested in developing my own character based on a list of unconventional concepts.

Timeless

I've come to love replacing Savage Shot with Concussion Shot on the normal Crip Shot bar. In 1v1 situations (like you're pushing the flag runner) a well placed Conc Shot shuts down casters hard, and it can be covered easily with Apply. In 8v8, look for people with Restore Condition or Draw Conditions. Spread some poison, then Conc that guy (with Apply up) and keep covering with cripple + poison. At the same time, you can tell a Warrior to jump on him too (if not, just switch to your Short Bow [+cripple] to help interrupt all his crap). As long as you're good with managing your energy, you can shutdown that caster for 20+ secs, and allows the rest of the conditions to stick on people.

I can tell you from experience, it works really really well against the Healer Henchmen.

I played around with a R/A with:

Crip Shot
Apply Poison
Distract Shot
Conc Shot
Shadow of Haste
Dark Escape
Signet of Malice
Troll Unguent

The Shadow of Haste allows you to make safe pushes into the enemy base to slow down and/or kill the enemy flag runner, with Sig of Malice keeping your blindness off. This is a great great great anti-caster build, and decent against assassins too. It gets pwned by R/Me with Distortion though.

I think for my next build I'm going with:

Crip Shot
Apply Poison
Distract Shot
Conc Shot
Antidote Signet
Troll Unguent
Distortion
Storm Chaser / Res Sig

Wasteland Squidget · Oct 23, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Hutto - I notice you don't seen to find any room for Debil Shot on those bars. This suprises me a bit, since it seems like an excellent skill for pressuring their team at the flagstand. Is this because you expect your ranger to be off in skirmish situations all the time and not able to reach their flagstand team much?

*lemming* · Oct 24, 2006, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eroth

theres is one possibility no ones said. Mix a prof to your ranger. Instead of A bow ranger become a Dagger-wielding/semi-trapper. People come along that stuff all the time. Don't limit yourself to the bow.

There's a reason why you don't see many of those.

Byron · Oct 24, 2006, 03:46 PM // 15:46

I admit that I've been searching for new uses to the ranger class, as well. Lately, I've been trying to hammer out a bar that applies damage pressure instead of degen pressure, since after Nightfall condition and enchantment removal will likely be the meta.

Problem is, with skills like shield's up and aegis, having a ranger whose primary job is to deal damage with bow attacks seems like a liability. Combining dual shot, debilitating shot, savage shot (or whatever attacks you choose to bring) with Read the Wind and a longbow could make a monk's day much worse.

Patccmoi · Oct 24, 2006, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

I admit that I've been searching for new uses to the ranger class, as well. Lately, I've been trying to hammer out a bar that applies damage pressure instead of degen pressure, since after Nightfall condition and enchantment removal will likely be the meta.

Problem is, with skills like shield's up and aegis, having a ranger whose primary job is to deal damage with bow attacks seems like a liability. Combining dual shot, debilitating shot, savage shot (or whatever attacks you choose to bring) with Read the Wind and a longbow could make a monk's day much worse.

We used Damage-pressure/spike rangers and they work just fine.

Hell, we're using for fun lately a Barrage Ranger with Brutal Weapon (from an ally) and Favorable Winds for a total of +38 damage (+5 Vamp) every shot in AOE, with TF to speed up his attack rate (we actually used Frenzy, but you can't Frenzy every shot in Barrage without interrupting yourself because of the recharge, it's kinda annoying. It's a rare case where TF at 25% allows you to chain a skill faster than Frenzy at 33% hehe). It's just like throwing Executioner's Strikes in AOE every 2 seconds or so, and Savage Shot interrupts spells for +57 damage or something like that.

Yes, there is Aegis and Shields Up!. But there's also Mend/Restore/Draw Conditions. There's also ward vs melee and Ward vs Foes and warriors still work.

Even a good old Kindle Ranger is still very good if more or less 'forgotten'. We use a 3 men spike with Evis-Exec-LOrb-LStrike-Dual-Savage in Kindle and it kills up to 80AL in around 1-2s depending on timing with only 3 people using 2 skills (and only 1 warrior to coordinate, which makes it much easier), very easy to fit in a balanced build. For a warrior you wanna spike down straight either have someone else assist on spike (you have other allies!) or it will just take 1-2 more seconds to finish him afterwards.

Damage Rangers are fine and working perfectly, and can easily include interrupts and debilitating in their builds, they were just 'forgotten' for all the condition spread teams around which aren't really better considering the meta is set against them since they are so common. Raw damage has lots of advantages over conditions too, such as the fact that Heal Party doesn't bother you since you're focusing on 2-3 person at most and since yo constantly bring people in a dangerous state monks have to react more often and spend more energy. Degen is just superior if it's left unchecked for too long (no heal party, no removal at all, etc.)

Wasteland Squidget · Oct 24, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Rangers are awesome spike characters. One of the most effective ranged spikes in the game. They tend to be lacking in defensive utility (which most spike builds want,) but they're still a strong character to plug in if you intend to get kills through spike.

Rangers aren't particularly good for applying damage, outside of bad teams that ball up against AoE. They don't hit as hard or as fast as warriors, but they get eaten by a lot of the same counters. Rangers tend to apply their pressure through disruption rather than pure damage. If you just nuked half their team with AoE or degen-based damage, distracting shot on Heal Party is a crazy amount of pressure on the other team's energy. Interrupting a ward or Aegis can weaken the enemy's defense and allow you to break their team in the intervening period. Interrupting a hard res can be game-breaking by itself.

Cripshot + Apply also makes the ranger an extremely strong skirmish character, which allows them to be versatile. They can act as a ganker, move up and pressure an enemy flagrunner, defend the base, ect.

When not interrupting, rangers can supplement an offense through some more damage, though they usually find themselves lacking in skillslots. Savage and Distracting are so good that you absolutely have to run them. Crip + Apply is your skirmish-winning combo and also applies more pressure than most other options. Distortion gives you immunity to death and makes you free to move around the battlefield. That leaves you with maybe 2 skills to choose from, and it doesn't help that most of the ranger damage skills are crap compared to their warrior counterparts.

In short, rangers are in a situation where their few good skills are far so ahead of everything else they could take that there are really very few choices. If you're not a Crip + Apply template, what are you going to do to apply pressure? You can Oath Shot-spam spirits and trap up the spirits if there's an effect you really want, or you can ignore pressure and go pure spike with Dual + Punishing man. Both have the problem of being less versatile than the Crip + Apply though, and you only bring them if there's some specific effect you really really want.